Catharine Titi and Katia Fach, professors and jurists: “We will see the marbles return to the Parthenon” | Culture | EUROtoday

We can name it return, restitution or reunification, as Greece does to reclaim the scattered marbles from its looted Parthenon, however we’re speaking about the identical factor: the rising demand to reintegrate items stolen when our empires conquered the world. Iconic jewels such because the bust of Nefertiti, the plume of Montezuma and the stays of an Ethiopian prince ended up in Europe. And views on the matter are altering. This is what Catharine Titi and Katia Fach Gómez, each professors and jurists, mirror of their very fascinating e-book kidnapped artwork (Peninsula). The first, born in Thessaloniki (Greece) 46 years in the past, works on the National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS) of France. The second, a 51-year-old native of Zaragoza, is a professor on the University of Zaragoza.

Ask. How was the bounce from legislation to artwork?

Catharine Titi. I investigated the Parthenon case and commenced to become involved within the efforts to revive the marbles. I began out pondering it was a singular case and shortly realized that the sample repeats itself: each the looting and the museums’ arguments to not return it. That’s why the concept for the e-book arose.

P. Do you assume we are going to see the Parthenon marbles return to their place?

C. T. Yes, we are going to see. I do not know when, however sure. International attitudes are altering and the UK and the British Museum are left alone of their resistance. The new technology is in favor and the imperial delight strategy to cling to, which is the angle of the institution British, is not going to be sustainable sooner or later.

P. Has restitution turn out to be one thing wokein a left-wing speech?

Katia Fach. At a world degree clearly not. In Belgium, the Museum of Africa was closed and there was a gradual and profound social debate wherein a consensus was reached that the story of its function within the Congo needed to be informed in one other means. It was price investing cash in it, giving African folks their very own voice and providing one other view of that colonization. If we deal with Spain, there’s a tendency in the direction of simplism: these on the left are extra inclined to present again and people on the fitting say that that is woke and so they do not agree. But, as one of many attorneys informed me in one of many instances which might be being claimed towards Spain: “Your present minister could be very coolhowever right here we’re ready for restitution.”

P. It refers to the Quimbaya treasure.

K. F. Exact. It was a gift from a president of Colombia to the queen regent in 1893 that the Constitutional Court of this country today considers illicit, but here all the parliamentary groups and the current Minister of Culture have agreed that it came by donation. And it is still in the Museum of America. Cultural heritage is done a disservice by saying that the left wants to give back and the right does not. In Aragon, for example, President Azcón (PP) is doing everything possible to bring back Sijena’s paintings. There are many reasons in favor of a specific restitution regardless of who you vote for.

P. Let’s talk about the bust of Nefertiti, still in Berlin. Why do we have that egyptomania?

C. T. Because we are talking about a very distant past with colorful images, unlike Rome and Greece. Because we have frescoes, objects and mummies, when, for example, in Greece they cremated their own and nothing remains. That’s why the fascination continues. France, for example, focuses its restitution debate on sub-Saharan heritage. It is much easier to return Benin bronzes than what belongs to Egypt. The same with Greek or Roman things. It is difficult to return what is next because we consider that it is also our past.

P. Should we colonial powers ask for forgiveness?

K. F. There are different colonialisms depending on the time and the area. Belgian colonialism in Africa is different from Spanish imperialism in Latin America and this debate is complicated in Spain. For some parties, not only do we not have to apologize, but rather feel proud of what was done there. Spain has not uttered the word sorry to Mexico, but has made a public statement about it.

C. T. I don’t know if they have to apologize, although it wouldn’t be bad. The minimum is to recognize that there was an injustice. Asking for forgiveness is a political issue, but we must recognize that the act of abduction was unjust, as the Netherlands has done.

P. Is there a double standard when it comes to Nazi looting versus empire looting?

C. T. Yes. The looting of the Jews was during wartime and the law there is different. The Second World War, furthermore, is much more recent and it is easier to return than when we talk about what happened 300 years ago.

P. Is the refusal to return the pieces a way of prolonging colonialism?

C. T. In a way yes. Imperialism is seen in the contempt of the answers they give. London changes its argument every time: first it said that the Greeks did not have a proper museum. And now that they have it, they see it as positive that the marbles are divided. They say that in Greece they can be admired in the context of Greek history and, in the British Museum, in the context of world history.

P. Should Montezuma’s plume return from Vienna to Mexico?

K. F. A bilateral Austrian-Mexican commission concluded more than a decade ago that it would arrive destroyed if returned and that is the museum’s main argument. But we have spoken with external experts, science has made a lot of progress and we would like the Vienna museum to renew this commission to analyze whether, with advances, this is still true. The person in charge of the Vienna museum said that only teleportation would allow the plume to move thanks to powers of Star Trekbut today perhaps there is a procedure that allows it. The technicians must say it.

P. Is there Diogenes syndrome in museums?

K. F. Yes. It is a complex of large museums like the British or the Louvre. They only show the public an infinitesimal part of what they have and with objects still uncatalogued. Under the carpet there are many things that citizens do not know exist.

C. T. It is said that there are objects in museum warehouses that are there for fear of claims. The British has around 900 Benin bronzes, but only one hundred are on display at a time. And they don’t want to give anything back.

P. Is colonialism still alive, then?

K. F. I do not believe that the refusal to return is for latent colonialist reasons. The arguments are usually that these pieces have been there for so long that they are also German or British, that they have dedicated a lot of money to them and that if they return it there is no guarantee that they will be well taken care of. If you can visit them and they still exist, they say, it is because they have been cared for.

P. Nationalism, then?

K. F. Maybe paternalism. Plus all the merchandising that loses a museum like the one in Berlin if it runs out of Nefertiti. Imagine the aprons, rags and everything they sell that bears their image.

C. T. And nostalgia. At the British Museum specifically, they reject restitution for that imperial previous, due to the concept that that is a part of its historic greatness. Yes, nostalgia is the phrase.