Ludovic Slimak on Neanderthals: “It was suicide. Humans disappear because their values ​​collapse” | Science | EUROtoday

In his newest e book, paleoanthropologist Ludovic Slimak says that as a younger man he noticed individuals whereas taking part in the bagpipes carrying a kilt on the soiled streets of Marseille. By an unconscious impulse he had determined to grasp that instrument, and he succeeded, to the purpose of getting a well-known band in France. Then his first youngster was born, he discovered himself touring from gig to gig and, in the long run, he stop. But he was in a position to get his doctorate with the cash he made taking part in.

Thanks to that, Slimak has been in a position to spend the final 30 years observing and finding out one of the vital decisive moments within the historical past of evolution: our species’ encounter with Neanderthals, the people closest to us. One of their newest discoveries is Thorin, a Neanderthal who lived about 42,000 years in the past, very near the second of extinction. From then on, the A smart man we grew to become the one human species on the planet.

In his new e book, The final neanderthal (Debate), Slimak, born in Vercors, France, 52 years in the past, displays on the explanations for the disappearance of these human brothers, and what it says about ourselves. “It is a sad book,” he highlights, as a result of regardless of the newest proof that Neanderthals managed hearth, made rock artwork and had intercourse and kids with our personal species – which has left a hint of their DNA in our genome – the scientist on the French National Research Center believes that they disappeared alone and completed. Slimak solutions EL PAÍS’ questions by videoconference from his lovely home, the place he lives together with his spouse and two kids, midway between Toulouse and the Pyrenees.

Ask. What story do Thorin’s stays inform?

Answer. The second of Neanderthal extinction is invisible, inconceivable to the touch, now we have no knowledge. What we discovered about Thorin, after virtually 10 years of analysis, is that he belonged to a special group from the traditional Neanderthals of Europe, and that when he died he was remoted. But not from a geographical or bodily standpoint.

P. In what sense then?

R. Mandrin Cave is within the Rhône Valley, which is a big migration hall between the Mediterranean and mainland Europe. It is a spot for contact and trade, however Thorin’s DNA tells us that his group had been remoted for about 60,000 years. And there have been different Neanderthals only a two-week stroll from this place. How is it attainable? I feel as a result of they rejected contact.

P. Is it attainable to spend a lot time remoted?

R. They have been pleased of their little valleys. They did not wish to discover the world or unfold their genes. It is one thing radically totally different from us, who’re explorers by definition. We have gone to Greenland, to the Moon and now we wish to go to Mars. This goes past genetics, it’s a deeper and extra attention-grabbing drawback: Is it attainable that for Neanderthals their relationship with the world was to have a small territory and keep there perpetually?

P. What does that say about their thoughts, have been they roughly clever?

R. The drawback is that we outline intelligence compared to our personal. But there are animals which are tremendous clever. In valleys of Africa, very totally different chimpanzee cultures are recognized that stay separated by a river. It could be very tough to think about these kind of divergent minds, however we’re surrounded by them. We have to simply accept that A smart man It shouldn’t be the definition of human, nor of intelligence. The actual query is how that different thoughts labored.

P. Is it attainable to seek out out?

R. It shouldn’t be solely a matter of tradition, however of ethology, of conduct. If I raised a Neanderthal child as my very own youngster, there could be no drawback with the bond. The query is whether or not, when he grew up, he would perceive the world the identical as my different kids. He most likely absorbed my tradition and traditions, however no. There could be one thing inside him that will situation him to see the world his manner; limits that not even the tradition I taught him might shut.

P. In his e book he concludes that they disappeared because of the collapse of their “mental sphere.” What does it imply?

R. In the e book I discuss concerning the story of Ishi, a Yahi Indian who lived in present-day California. Ishi all of a sudden seems in Oroville in 1911. Nobody anticipated that there would nonetheless be wild Indians, bare with their bow and arrows, in that space. What occurred was that Ishi’s group consciously changed into shadows, hid from the whites and acted as if they didn’t exist. They lived like this for a century and a half, with none contact with Westerners. Their territory was getting smaller and smaller. They have been hunter gatherers, they wanted to hunt with out being seen. And in the long run it grew to become unsustainable. Ishi was the final of his lineage and, by his personal determination, he determined to go to die the place the Westerners are. He thought of them demons and needed them to kill him. They known as anthropologists from everywhere in the nation, however they could not get via to him. In truth, they by no means knew his identify. Ishi means human; he was simply saying he was a human. There are many different examples. When these teams can disguise, they disguise. And if anybody finds them, they kill them.

For just a few years I labored in Ethiopia and Djibouti. There are nonetheless tribes of nomadic hunters and warriors there. Contact with totally different cultures, such because the Western one, causes all their values ​​to break down, their manner of understanding the world, the tales they inform their kids, their mythologies. After contact, these tales develop into absurd. Children cease recognizing themselves of their mother and father, of their elders, they now not wish to proceed. Many fall into medication or alcohol. In the capital of Djibouti, a big a part of the inhabitants lives on medication. The youngsters solely dream of emigrating to Yemen, the place the worst kind of slavery conceivable awaits them.

P. And did one thing like this occur with the Neanderthals?

R. The instruments of the sapiens They are standardized. Neanderthals, however, had a way more distinctive and inventive manner, though a lot much less environment friendly. It is evident to me that these people collapsed on themselves. Depending on the world, they could have determined to develop into invisible, and in others they merely now not needed to stay. It was a person and social suicide of the inhabitants. This is how people disappear, once they now not wish to proceed residing as a result of their values ​​have collapsed.

P. Does that say something good about us, that now we have prevailed?

R. This suicide, this collapse, shouldn’t be as a result of sapiens be dangerous The drawback is that now we have to be environment friendly. It’s one thing genetic. We all have to do the identical factor on the similar time. It’s terrifying. When you perceive it, you see the historical past of the twentieth century. How we have been able to genocide. The Germans did it, however it might have been some other nation in Europe. How can we describe our tendency to reject distinction? If we do not get it, it’ll occur once more. In Poland, in the course of the Holocaust, the Nazis prompt to a police battalion that they kill Jewish kids with a bullet to the pinnacle. They weren’t compelled, in the event that they did not wish to do it, that was positive. But regardless of this, the overwhelming majority carried out the executions. It is our tendency in the direction of synchronization, standardization, integration into the group, conformity and worry of being marginalized.

P. Humans additionally remedy most cancers, we reached the Moon, now we have domesticated the atom…

R. Yes, we do good issues. That capability I communicate of is likely one of the keys to our historic success. But the mechanisms that allow cooperation and institutional stability additionally make people extremely vulnerable to collective alienation when the norm shifts towards violence or ecological destruction. My intention is to not sully the sapienshowever that by placing phrases to our frailties, to our risks, we are able to start to alter them. My work has gone from excavating Neanderthal caves to making an attempt to know what we’re and act to be higher people. Despite our science and data, we stay blind. Being higher requires cultivating the actual need to know and love those that are totally different. Without recognizing our intrinsic conduct, there can be no change.

P. Could or not it’s that the Neanderthal didn’t disappear alone, however residing amongst sapienseven with a few that species?

R. In this subject it’s straightforward to say virtually something, as a result of the courting ranges are very vast. In the case of Thorin, for instance, the fossil is between 40,000 and 45,000 years previous, up or down a thousand years. But in Mandrin Cave now we have analyzed the soot and now we have seen that between the final Neanderthal hearth and the primary of the sapiens At most six months handed. That means they have been in the identical place, collectively, however not blended up. When they’re sapienswe solely discover instruments sapiens; and the identical factor occurs with Neanderthals. Never collectively. I can not assist however suppose it is a unhappy story.

P. Are we nonetheless unable to see the opposite?

R. Completely. Look at Greenland. The media debate focuses on geopolitics, assets, and the economic system, ignoring that it’s not an empty area: it’s the residence of Inuit populations with millennia of historical past. This blindness shouldn’t be new. Already in 1955, the United States constructed the Thule base, the most important on the earth outdoors its territory, in complete secret, with out consulting the inhabitants who lived there. Now, in 2026, we proceed to disclaim that Greenland belongs to the Inuit.

P. Do you’ve gotten any new discoveries?

R. Yes, I can not give particulars as a result of we’re going to publish it in a scientific journal, possibly in two or three years. And about this I’ll write my subsequent e book, which can be known as one thing like The forest individuals. It is feasible that different utterly unknown human populations existed. We discovered a physique in a deep cave. It shouldn’t be in Mandrin, however in Vaucluse, close to Avignon. In a layer of about 110,000 years. It’s fascinating as a result of the morphology could be very particular. It appears like a seven-year-old youngster, however it’s the physique of an grownup. From what now we have seen, there aren’t any Neanderthal traits. And we do not know what it’s. It could possibly be a inhabitants like that of hobbit de Flores, remoted in a really dense forest, as they have been at the moment. There could also be a number of extra our bodies. We have work for years. I can not say extra.